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Soldiers of the IDF

Given the ugly resurgence of the oldest hatred we are seeing from those lovely #occupy folks across the US I thought it was about time we got back to expressing admiration for the soldiers of the IDF.

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Jews aren’t hated because of Israel, Israel is hated because it’s Jewish.

16 Comments

  1. daisy says:

    “Jews aren’t hated because of Israel, Israel is hated because it’s Jewish.”

    This is such a cop out. Stick to this and you will never have to ask serious questions about actual reality, the history, the politics. To see Israel and Jews as ordinary human beings living in a modern political state just like most of the rest of human kind. Modern states which have modern political and ideological aims;some good, some bad. Led by modern sophisticated people;again some of them good ,some of them bad;some with good intentions toward others, some, like everywhere else in the world led by notions of their own ethnic and religious superiority to others. You might then, when you ask questions about, and rightly condemn suicide attacks, mortars and an aggressive ideology based on Islamism, you have to also ask about aggressive violent dispossession of people’s homes and often the people themselves. All spurred on by an equally aggressive religious ideology that makes such claims to do so as a right given by their god. All funded by a so-called democracy.

    Simple minded approaches to understanding complex modern conflicts brings nothing to an understanding of it, and offers no solutions. In fact, it encourages the idea that because it is grounded in something other than its own time and location in the here and now as part of human history and politics, then there is probably nothing that human beings can do.

    In the meantime ordinary Israelis and Palestinians will continue, like the rest of us to live in the real here and now world created by real people and try to find a twenty first century way out of it.

    I say again- what a bloody cop-out.

  2. NickM says:

    I am not really an Ayn Rand fan ( to the extent that I haven’t bothered reading her but I have reading of her – I do appreciate) but…

    One of her dictums strikes me in the guts and stays. “Civilization always trumps the alternative”. (I paraphrase). It’s that simple. Take it for all and all Israel is prepared to rate Sgt Shalit at a 500-1 rate. You can say lots against that but it shows something.

    For good or ill it show what either side regards human life as worth.

    Why do I keep on going back to Golda Meier (I paraphrase) – “This war will end when the Arabs lean to love their children more than they hate ours”. There are playgrounds in North-East Cheshire / Southern Manchester. They have swings and such. They don’t need the equivalent of Anderson shelters.

    Moreover, maybe 15 years ago an Israeli transexual (Dana International) won the Eurovision song contest (I know). Can you imagine that from “Palestine”? So why do we keep these double standards?

    I support Israel simply because it is civilization. That is it.

    I don’t believe in conscription. If they stuck me in an F-16 with a 6-pointed-star in a Viper I’d be well up for it.

    I don’t believe in conscription.

    But Israel….

    I don’t know. Israel is better. The Arabs may not like it (they don’t) but it is fundamentally an outpost of The West.

    And our civilization is better than their own. Tough in’t?

  3. Single Acts of Tyranny says:

    This is a spoof right? You cannot be Libertarian and support the absentee property law, or the right to return law, or collective punishment or conscription. Come on mate, cognitive dissonance?

    The argument that the Palestinian Islamists are worse (as they are) than the still totally vile fascist Israelis is no basis to support them? Who did you support in the Stalin/Hitler scrap, the Iran/Iraq thing? It’s okay to say ‘none of the above’

  4. CountingCats says:

    Daisy,

    Might I suggest that I take the view I do because I know something of the issues?

  5. CountingCats says:

    SAT,

    Fascism.

    I don’t tend to go along with the equation:
    Fascism = something I don’t like.
    Israel = something I don’t like
    therefore: Israel = Fascism.

  6. daisy says:

    Which of the comments has called Israel fascist? Why introduce into the discussion something no-one here has claimed.?

  7. CountingCats says:

    Daisy,

    Read the comment by Single Acts of Tyranny.

  8. Adam Collyer says:

    It always was a very small step from “it’s those bastard bankers to blame” to “it’s those bastard Jewish bankers to blame”. That’s what worries me about the level of political debate on the credit crisis.

  9. NickM says:

    Adam,
    The truth is an awful lot of people were to blame. Our own Paul Marks was sounding his Cassandra-tones about credit bubbles and the inevitable reckoning for years to anyone who cared to hear which amounted to almost no one. Everyone who borrowed money on the basis that the value of their house (actually, usually, largely the bank’s house) would continue to rise way above the rate of inflation (and screw you plebs who can’t afford a rabbit hutch!) is to blame. The politicians who thought entire economies could be based upon house prices and consumption and not growing or making things and providing services are to blame. I personally suspect the majority of politicians* have some strange mental disturbance which makes it cognitively impossible for them to even imagine more than 4-5 years into the future.

    So yeah the bankers are a scapegoat – a very convenient one because most people of course aren’t bankers. Jewish bankers even more so because that narrows it down further.

    *That’s a very polite collective noun for politicians – a “majority”. I can think of others…

  10. John Galt says:

    To depart from the political angle for a second, I’d bang either of the two on the right given half a chance.

    Phwor!

  11. Nelsontouch says:

    You don’t have to support everything Israelis do. You can still support their right to live. Ditto the Palestinians.
    Blood brothers, indeed.

    Those girl soldiers aren’t exceptional, by the way. Pretty average, actually. Shows what genetic mixing can do, when you throw together people from a dozen countries; there never was any such thing as a Jewish race.

  12. Single Acts of Tyranny says:

    “I don’t tend to go along with the equation:
    Fascism = something I don’t like.
    Israel = something I don’t like
    therefore: Israel = Fascism”

    I did not make this argument.

    Read your own link and tell me this is not modern Israeli politics.

  13. APL says:

    John Galt: “I’d bang either of the two on the right given half a chance.”

    OK John, I’ll pick up your left overs. Third from the right is cute enough if you ask me.

    By the way, Israel, Palestine – the whole thing is the fault of the Italians.

  14. Paul Marks says:

    “Jews are not hated because of Israel – Israel is hated because it is Jewish”.

    Yes, that is the truth.

  15. Paul Lockett says:

    “Jews aren’t hated because of Israel, Israel is hated because it’s Jewish.”

    And as we all know, no amount of logic can trump the race card.

  16. Tom says:

    These bitches are ugly – they look like crossbred Russians and Arabs

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