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Soldiers of the IDF

I was reminded by a recent commenter I haven’t done homage to soldiers of the IDF, the brave defenders of the sole free society in the Middle East, for some time. Well, pics of soldiers carrying big guns always seem popular, so:

SexyIsraeliArmyGirloffdutyHergunise

33 Comments

  1. FreePalestine says:

    Thank you for your post. I would like all readers to click on “a recent commenter” and read what was said. Make your best judgement and get back to me, I only intend to converse about the topic. Thank you.

  2. RAB says:

    Hello Troll. Cats has given us permission to play with you, and you know what Cats are like with mice don’t you?

    First off…

    “And excuse me international community for thinking for a second that the state of israel exists, its an illegal occupation.”

    It does exist as it was UN mandated and voted for in 1948. It exists in a way that Palestine never has. There has never been a place called Palestine, that had definable borders, kings, princes, presidents or a Republic even. It is a geographical term, much like Europe. It has no history as a Sovereign Country whatsoever, and no people who can legitimately call themselves Palestinians, they consisting of Arabs from Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon etc.

    And those countries, with the exception of Egypt, are new and artificial constucts themselves, never having existed except as Provinces ruled by the Turks, until the fall of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War, when Britain and France re-drew the map of the middle East.

    “Palestinians” were offered their own State at exactly the same time Israel was founded, in 1948. They chose not to do accept, assured by their Arab neighbours that Israel would be instantly pushed into the sea and utterly destroyed. The Arab Nations were handed their ass on a plate, not just in 1948, but 1967 and on and on and on.

    When will Arabs ever learn that Israel only wants to live in peace. If you continually attack them, they will retaliate in force. So stop the Stupid rockets from Gaza and the once a decade bloody minded wars which the Arabs always lose, put the AK47s back in the cupboard and try peace you fuckwits! Then see how fast the Middle East can prosper to everyone’s satisfaction Arab and Jew.

  3. Sam Duncan says:

    I clicked. What Cats said.

    Plus, “Free” Palestine? The Transjordan was part of the Palestinian Mandate. Nearly 90% of Palestine is “free”. And how many synagogues – or churches – are there in that country, let alone Jews or Christians in its government?

    The Jews were given a sliver of Palestine after WWII, not because the UN looked at the map and asked itself, “Who do we hate? Ah, the Palestinian Arabs!”, but because they’d already been hounded out of their ancient homeland by the blameless Arabs in the first place. And it was the governments of Egypt and Syria who encouraged Arabs to flee, with imaginary stories of Jewish persecution that – those who stayed will tell you – never materialised, then held them in refugee camps for decades as human bargaining chips, rather than resettle them.

    I wish Israel didn’t have to exist in the form it does too. But with its religious freedom and relatively sensible form of government, it’s infinitely preferable to the alternatives. Israel doesn’t ban the posession of anybody’s holy book. It wasn’t the Israeli government who called recently (presumably blissfully unaware of the connotations) for “separate development”. It’s not Israeli mobs burning down the churches of the indigenous Egyptian population with their congregations in them. And it’s not Israel’s constitution that calls for the driving of the muslim into the sea.

  4. RAB says:

    Oh and troll, it’s a long read but Hitchens has been there, have you?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1319157/Gaza-Strip-Lattes-beach-bbqs-dodging-missiles-worlds-biggest-prison-camp.html

    And the money quote of the last paragraph…

    But if outside politicians, more interested in their reputations than in the lives of Arabs and Israelis, would only stop their search for a final settlement, might it be that people – left to their own devices – might find a way of living together, a way that was imperfect, but which no longer involved human beings being dissolved into hunks of flying flesh by high explosive?

    That’s just what Libertarian folk round here are looking and hoping for.

  5. Mr Ed says:

    I’m a socialist, and I’m not really bothered if Arabs kill other Arabs, be it in Syria, Iraq, Algeria… You get my drift. I don’t really mind if Arabs kill Berbers, or Iranians, or vice versa. But should one Israeli harm even a fly… Two wrongs don’t make a right, but I have my priorities.

  6. Felix The Cat of Zanzibar says:

    Hey Mr Ed, maybe we could just stick all those “Arabs” in ovens and let all my jewish ancestry move in and create a beautiful classical estate.
    Oh the nazi reich…so elegant…so superior…so organized…the people of Kiev welcome them into their homes as liberators from the oh so represive regime of the Soviets. So the “Israeli’s” believe they have come to liberate the land in the name of god…Nazi=Zionist, Zionist = Nazi.
    Lets not look at this situation in such a binary mode, so black and white…these are HUMANS (towel heads, #chinks, #japs, #yanks,# krauts, #kikes, #niggers, #spicks or whatever you may call them) that are being raped out of their homes by an extremist cult backed up my military forces which are breaking the same human rights and commiting warcrimes the nazi’s were hung for. I ask myself how the UN (the so called mechanism of world peace) let such a thing happen (the scheeming of zionist’s maybe?). I love you my brothers, I hope we can all live peaceful times and never see the day of another nuclear strike anywhere in the world. I will be called a troll onethousand times for excercising freespeech and themes a little more controversial then what Ashton Kutcher did at the grammies (most american news) and that will only make me chuckle at such an attempt to discredit my words. Yes, I do know how Cat’s are with Mice…sounds like an allusion a Nazi would use for their relation with the jews…or how the Zionist may speak of their palestenian counterpart. I do not know what context or bias you are standing in…but the Apartheid “state” of Israel has no right to be where it is, any supporters or settlers of this state are pons of the Zionist elite. Sheep and Cattle of the world, let your heart feel sympathy for your brothers that, may or may not, be as fortunate as you are…to have a decent education, peaceful home, and SELF-determination to acheive these needs. No matter the line of race or nationality that may be bestowed to them by destiny. Lets not play civilize the world, the world will civilize itself in due time and at the peoples will.

  7. FreePalestine says:

    Hey Mr Ed, maybe we could just stick all those “Arabs” in ovens and let all my jewish ancestry move in and create a beautiful classical estate.
    Oh the nazi reich…so elegant…so superior…so organized…the people of Kiev welcome them into their homes as liberators from the oh so represive regime of the Soviets. So the “Israeli’s” believe they have come to liberate the land in the name of god…Nazi=Zionist, Zionist = Nazi.
    Lets not look at this situation in such a binary mode, so black and white…these are HUMANS (towel heads, #chinks, #japs, #yanks,# krauts, #kikes, #niggers, #spicks or whatever you may call them) that are being raped out of their homes by an extremist cult backed up my military forces which are breaking the same human rights and commiting warcrimes the nazi’s were hung for. I ask myself how the UN (the so called mechanism of world peace) let such a thing happen (the scheeming of zionist’s maybe?). I love you my brothers, I hope we can all live peaceful times and never see the day of another nuclear strike anywhere in the world. I will be called a troll onethousand times for excercising freespeech and themes a little more controversial then what Ashton Kutcher did at the grammies (most american news) and that will only make me chuckle at such an attempt to discredit my words. Yes, I do know how Cat’s are with Mice…sounds like an allusion a Nazi would use for their relation with the jews…or how the Zionist may speak of their palestenian counterpart. I do not know what context or bias you are standing in…but the Apartheid “state” of Israel has no right to be where it is, any supporters or settlers of this state are pawns of the Zionist elite. Sheep and Cattle of the world, let your heart feel sympathy for your brothers that, may or may not, be as fortunate as you are…to have a decent education, peaceful home, and SELF-determination to acheive these needs. No matter the line of race or nationality that may be bestowed to them by destiny. Lets not play civilize the world, the world will civilize itself in due time and at the peoples will. -Felix das Katze Von Sansibar

  8. FreePalestine says:

    A speech by Benjamin H Freedman. Never believe everything you hear. Question everything, do your own research. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiY3VMyXNlI

  9. FreePalestine says:

    If I were kicked out of my home by a militarist cult…I may think of revolting…wouldn’t you? Maybe send a rocket to the same military that raped my mother and father out of their home when I was a small boy. Cause and Effect.

  10. RAB says:

    Well you encouraged him Cats! He seems completely impervious to facts. Do you want me to Pwn him again or what?

  11. Felix The Cat of Zanzibar says:

    Why even comment, you sound like a teenage gamer…your blogs have as much substance as a void. “He seems completely impervious to facts.” What a fallacy and a lack of ability to converse like a civilized individual. May the light of truth enter your eyes and free you from your endoctrination to become another sheep in the herd…to walk off the cliff blindly with a smile…

  12. Felix The Cat of Zanzibar says:

    “…If you would learn to speak all tongues and conform to customs of all nations,
    if you would travel further than all travellers, be naturalized in all climes,…
    Explore thyself. Herein are demanded the eye and the nerve.
    Only the defeated and deserters go to the wars, cowards that run away and enlist.
    Start now on that farthest western way, which does not pause at the Mississippi or
    the Pacific, nor conduct toward a worn-out China or Japan, but leads on direct, a
    tangent sphere, summer and winter, day and night, sun down, moon down, and at last
    earth down too.”
    - Thoreau, Walden

  13. Felix The Cat of Zanzibar says:

    Maybe you should change your website quote to something more fitting “The universalists, the idealists, the Utopians all aim too high. They give promises of an unattainable paradise, and by doing so they deceive mankind. Whatever label they wear, whether they call themselves Christians, Communists, humanitarians, whether they are merely sincere but stupid or wire-pullers and cynics, they are all makers of slaves. I myself have always kept my eye fixed on a paradise which, in the nature of things, lies well within our reach. I mean an improvement in the lot of the German people. – Adolf Hitler (Except for your site maybe we could put universalists, idealists, humanitarians, communists and christians under the “troll” label, and the german people for the “Israelis”.

  14. Felix The Cat of Zanzibar says:

  15. CountingCats says:

    RAB, I couldn’t be bothered. I sussed out the extent of his mindset and left it at that.

    The ‘Israel is illegal’, and ‘Israel kills Palestinian children’ memes are fixed, and there is no point talking further. I can’t be bothered arguing when the only response is to ignore context and offer baseless assertions. If you want to waste your time feel free I guess, you are an adult and know best how to spend your time.

    Deal with Felix as you see fit.

  16. Felix The Cat of Zanzibar says:

    “Israel kills palestinian children memes are fixed” HAHAHAHAHAHAHA WOW…who runs this site? “Baseless assertions”??? Thats ALL you have to say…*sigh* Well I tried to make my point. I can assure you, that you did nothing more then scan my words. Ill go “troll” some other blog in the name of humanity, justice, truth. The only context we need to understand is the occupation of Land in the name of a megalomanica cause, in exchange and sealed by the blood of displaced peoples. IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT THE LAND IS CALLED, “CANAAN”, “ISRAEL”, “PALESTINE”…there are human rights being violated for a zionist elite. Simple simple simple. Well…if you cant understand that its because your heart was long gone years ago…once a jarhead…always a jarhead.

  17. APL says:

    Sam Duncan: “but because they’d already been hounded out of their ancient homeland by the blameless Arabs in the first place. ”

    I rather thought it was the Romans that expelled the Jews from Israel?

    I discussed the ‘Palestinian isshu’ with the right on partner of my sister in law. The Palestinians have prior right of abode in ‘Palestine’ because they were there before the Jews.

    On the issue of the Jews being in Jerusalem before the Moslems who provocatively built their second most important temple on the site of the Jewish Temple of David that sort of prior right of abode didn’t count in his books.

    Apart from all that shite, Jews and Arabs are largely the same race, a bit like Germans and English.

  18. CountingCats says:

    I don’t think these historical arguments cut much ice. Before Islam Jerusalem wasn’t Jewish, it was Christian. Before being Christian it was pagan – Aelia Capitolina, named for and dedicated to Jupiter Capitolinus, before pagan it was Jewish. In fact, Jerusalem hasn’t been Jewish since 70AD.

    How far back we go is purely arbitrary.

    The point is, Israel exists, and its creation was legal. Whether it was moral is a different argument. It is easy for all involved to disappear up their own fundaments once the arguments start.

    Did a palestinian people exist back in the 1940? Arguably not. Does one exist today? Arguably yes. Where it came from isn’t as important as that it exists. 90% of the land refered to by the Balfour Declaration as to be set aside for the Jews is now Jordan, nee Transjordan, nee Transjordan Palestine. There is an Arab state in Palestine, and soon there will be two. The Jews will get about 7% of what was originally promised them. Did the British have the authority to make this promise? That is a different question.

    What we do know, regardless of our chum Felix’s assertions, is that peace will not come until Palestinians cease trying to kill Israeli children. And when they do so cease, that act will create the peace. Consider this http://www.countingcats.com/?p=1179

  19. RAB says:

    Nah I can’t be bothered wasting any more of my silvered words on this cartoon character either Cats.

  20. Sam Duncan says:

    Well, yes, APL. If you take “first place” literally. You know what I meant: Israel/Palestine was the Jewish homeland, by 1948 it was largely occupied by Arabs. There were, granted, other occupiers in between. And yes, of course you’re right about the ethnicity of Jews and Arabs: an anti-semitic Arab is a very odd thing to be. (My point was that coastal Palestine wasn’t chosen at random: it’s where they came from.)

    But as Cats says, these historical arguments are the weakest anyway. The fact remains that, far from the insane “apartheid” “rogue” state of Leftist/Islamist fantasy, Israel is the only liberal, democratic, religiously tolerant state in the Middle East, and that’s why it’s worthy of support.

  21. Thornavis says:

    Sam Duncan
    Actually that’s not the most important reason why Israel is worthy of support. History has shown that the rest of the world can’t be trusted to let Jews live in peace amongst them, so they need somewhere of their own as an irreducible safe haven. It can’t accommodate all Jews but it can act as a refuge for a large number if there should ever be a repeat anywhere of the sort of mass pogroms that were once common. This is the whole essence of Zionism and anti-Zionism and one nation Palestinianism are objectively anti semitic as the Marxists probably wouldn’t say.

  22. APL says:

    Counting Cats: “Before Islam Jerusalem wasn’t Jewish, it was Christian.”

    For a brief time maybe, but before it was Christian it was Jewish. The iconic member of what came to be the Christian religion was a Jew, (It may have been St Paul that actually severed the relationship between what became Christianity and Judaism).

    So I think it safe to say Judaism came first then Christianity, some considerable time later. And I think too it is worth while exploring the historical precident, not least because you can destroy some arguments of our homegrown leftie sympathizers by turning their own arguments against them.

    It may be fruitless but it is amusing to watch.

  23. CountingCats says:

    I think it safe to say Judaism came first then Christianity, some considerable time later

    So what? Stating a truism doesn’t invalidate what I said.

    Jerusalem was destroyed in ~70AD. Flattened, and the population scattered, forced out, banished. The province of Judea was also abolished and incorporated into the province of Syria Palaestina.
    In 135AD the pagan city of Aelia Capitolina was founded on the wasteland which had previously been the site of Jerusalem. It was a Roman/Greek colony and Jews were forbidden to reside there at all. As the Empire Christianised the city population abandoned paganism and became Christian.

    Jews were not permitted to live in Jerusalem for five hundred and fifty years, until the Muslim takeover.

    I stand by what I said.

  24. zack says:

    felix:HUMANS … that are being raped out of their homes by an extremist cult backed up my military forces which are breaking the same human rights and commiting warcrimes the nazi’s were hung for.
    ———————————————–
    but enough about Hamas and Fatah, (whose constitutions call for the extermination of the Jews)

    ———————————————–
    sam duncan:The fact remains that, far from the insane “apartheid” “rogue” state of Leftist/Islamist fantasy, Israel is the only liberal, democratic, religiously tolerant state in the Middle East, and that’s why it’s worthy of support.
    ———————————————-
    This, this, 1000X this.

    Thornavis, while you are correct about the reason Israel was created (and is one of the key reasons why I believe that its creation was the right thing to do), I wouldn’t go so far as to say that is a reason to support it. If this Jewish state was ran like North Korea or Iran (in other words, if it really was as bad as people like Felix, or FreePalestine say), I wouldn’t support it, nor do I think that many on this board would. The fact that it is a free and just society is the reason why it receives my full support.

  25. CountingCats says:

    Zack,

    Felix is FreePalestine. He changed his name as a tongue in cheek gesture. At least he has a sense of humour.

  26. zack says:

    I know they were the same person Cat; I should have made it clear by saying , “or rather freepalistine”. Sorry for not making it clear.

    either way, the guy is an antisemitic putz.

  27. Sam Duncan says:

    Thornavis, that’s why it’s worthy of existence, and I don’t deny that for a second.

  28. zack says:

    Just to remove any further ambiguity in my original statement – when I say “I wouldn’t go so far as to say that is a reason to support it”, I mean the the Israeli government. Israel has as much right to exist as the US, the UK, or any other country. I think the government is another issue entirely.

    I think all of these attempts by leftists to delegitimize Israel (boycotts, calling racist/apartheid/nazi, etc) are not only misguided, but morally wrong. Israel is the only bastion of freedom in sea of despotism; that is reason enough to lend it moral and political support. If Israel were as racist/despotic as the leftists say it is, then their efforts at deligitimization would be the correct course of action – but Israel isn’t, and their(the leftists) actions aren’t.

    Of course, these protests about Israel aren’t really about Israel, it’s just a convenient reason to air their two hatreds- hatred of Western Society and hatred of Jews.

  29. APL says:

    Counting Cats: “I stand by what I said.”

    You’re welcome to.

    But it doesn’t change the fact that in 70AD Rome wasn’t Christian, Judea was Roman occupied and what passed then for Christianity was one of many persecuted sects, in the Roman Empire.

    And before the Romans arrived, Judea was Jewish. Christianity barely got a look in for about two hundred years in the eleventh century AD, before the Mohemmetians took the place and built their second holiest shrine on the ruins of the Jewish Temple of Solomon.

    Counting Cats: “flattened … forced out, banished”

    Well, that’s it then! Jews have no right to Israel because a long dead Empire destroyed their country and dispersed the population.

    Except other than as historical record, that the Romans thought the Jewish State ought to be dispersed is irrelevant today.

    But as the pro Palestinian lobby argue in terms of prior right of abode in Palestine for Palestinians, the Jewish claim of prior right of abode in that geographical region fashionably called Palestine, trumps that of the Palestinians.

  30. CountingCats says:

    APL,

    Ok, I’d forgotten about and hadn’t factored in the time of the Kingdom of Jerusalem then. working backwards – Islam, Christianish, Islam, Christian, pagan, empty wasteland, Jewish, some sort of pagan prior to David. As I said, to argue on the basis of historical occupation is to just choose some sort of arbitrary date. It is, in my opinion, about the weakest argument there is.

    Islam took over Jerusalem in 638, a mosque was built on the temple mount almost immediately, and a grand mosque was built about a hundred or so years after that.

    Well, that’s it then! Jews have no right to Israel because a long dead Empire destroyed their country and dispersed the population.

    You really haven’t read anything I have written have you? What an absurd claim.

    But it doesn’t change the fact that in 70AD Rome wasn’t Christian

    ???

    No one is claiming it was. I don’t comprehend what point you are trying to make.

    what passed then for Christianity was one of many persecuted sects, in the Roman Empire.

    Twaddle.

    Christianity wasn’t important enough to be persecuted at that point. Some Jews were pissed off by it – see the history of Paul, but the Romans didn’t give a toss. The Christians became a persecuted minority only once they started being a pain in the arse. In fact, the Romans were tolerant of religions. Want to list these many persecuted sects?

    Did you even read what I had written? Please do so before you argue the point with me. If you want to discuss on the basis of what I have actually said I am happy to continue. Otherwise, don’t waste my time.

  31. Thornavis says:

    Zack & Sam Duncan,

    Yes you’re both right of course but I think it’s vital that supporters of Israel don’t make the mistake of tacitly accepting the anti Zionist terms of debate by getting drawn into arguments about freedom and democracy. Outside support is vital for Israel’s survival and as we don’t have to worry about it being a fascist dictatorship we shouldn’t get sidetracked into praising it’s democratic virtues, real as they are. Its enemies aren’t interested in that anyway, even though they claim they are, so it’s not an argument we can win, all we need do is state clearly and unequivocally that Israel exists, will continue to exist and if they don’t like it they know what they can do.

  32. Thornavis says:

    Zack
    Sorry I missed your clarification, which pretty much renders my further comment redundant.

  33. Paul Marks says:

    Please note the physical ethnic markers of the lady in the photograph.

    Colour of hair, eyes, skin, shape of nose (and so on).

    If “race” means anything (which I sometimes dought) this lady is an “Arab” in that she is of “semitic race”.

    So the idea of Israel the “racist state” collapses.

    Also Israel is the only country in the Middle East where CHRISTIAN Arabs are not persecuted – where they are not a falling population group.

    Think about that the next time the BBC (or whatever) trots out an Edward Said clone to complain about the evil Jews and how they persecute Christian Arabs.

    The struggle in Israel is not “racist” it is a struggle against radical ISLAM.

    And the Islamists do not just intend to to drive the Jews into the sea – they intend (in spite of the people they trot in front of the television cameras for propaganda) to drive the Christians and moderate Muslims into the sea as well.

    That is the factor that “Free Palestine” does not understand.

    Not only has there never been an independent country called “Palestine” (it was name invented by the Emperor Hadrian as a way of saying that the Greek “Phillistines” were right and the Jews wrong in their ancient war), but unless you are a radical Islamists your “friends” are not friends at all.

    Once they have used you to help them exterminate the Jews – they will turn on you.

    Marxists are not the only ones who use “useful idiots” – Islamists do as well.

    And the Islamists have much wider designs than “just” Israel.

    The intention of radical Islam is world conquest.

    “No, no, no – they just want the West Bank…..”

    Much of the so called “West Bank” is closer to the Med than it is the Jordan river – allowing it to fall under the military control of Islam would mean that Israel could be cut in two (by a suprise attack) within a few hours. And (as is known to any student of history) a peace treaty with the followers of Muhammed is worthless. Just as peace treaties with Muhammed himself were worthless (see Robert Spencer’s book on this gentleman).

    Also the Islamic claim to such places as London and Paris is based on the same doctrine as their claim to the “West Bank”.

    Are you willing to hand over Europe to the Islamists?

    No?

    Then do not ask Israel to hand over its security to them.

    Such a move could only mean death or enslavement – and not just for Jews.

    But for Christians and moderate Muslims also.

    For many Muslims are in the Israeli Parliament and serve (voluntarily) in the IDF.

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