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Selective policing

Since when is it the position of the police to police insensivity?

Since when do the police get to invent new laws? Such as: Possession of a dog in the presence of a Muslim?

A dog can render a Muslim ritually unclean, since when is it the role of the police to enforce some groups religious ritual on the rest of us?

Your ritual requirements are my stuff and nonsense. Your freedom to practice your religion also equates to my freedom not to practice it. Maybe the coppers need to be a little more sensitive to the rest of us….


  1. Jock says:

    Hmmm – I had just such a discussion about dogs with a Muslim friend around Christmas time last year. He liked dogs. And they are only haram, said he, in particular contexts. So whilst they shouldn’t be allowed to mix in with other regulated areas of the household, such as food preparation and cleanliness functions, they are, as any TV news item showing any Muslim country you can name, quite fine wandering around on their own. Sounds like Toronto police taking lessons from British police on “sensitivity enforcement”.

  2. Talwin says:

    ……And, Jock, as far as I’m concerned, neither should dogs be allowed to mix in with other regulated areas of the household such as food preparation and cleanliness functions in the dwellings also of Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs, Scientologists, ….. etc., etc., and agnostics and atheists.

    Although I don’t know, my guess is that, along with other purported Islamic dos and don’ts, The Prophet said bugger-all about passing a dog in the street.

  3. CountingCats says:

    Dog moisture, saliva, urine, whatever, renders a muslim ritually unclean in all circumstances. Seeing one has no effect.

  4. RAB says:

    Well expect more and more of this type of thing as our Police States around the world make up the rules as they go along.

    The only reason dogs are considered unclean in Islam is because the main rival to Islam in its early days was Zoroastrianism. Its followers deified Dogs rather like the Egyptians deified Cats. So you have to demonise your enemies deities to succeed don’t you? Simples!

    But I have a larger question, why was this rally allowed in the first place? After all its stated purpose is…

    Al-Quds Day is a yearly international event created in 1979 by Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini to mark the end of Ramadan and to call for the destruction of Israel and the creation a Palestinian state.

    The destruction of Israel? Surely against a raft of Hate crime and thought crime laws? Yet this event is “protected” by what purports to be English Civil Law, and a bloke with a dog gets banged up for a while (which is not a crime) whilst his protagonists are not even questioned for assault on him.

    The Canadian police will doubtless say that it was the assault not the dog that led to the arrest, but we don’t believe them do we children?

  5. JuliaM says:

    I wonder when the ‘Guardian’ will report on this shocking example of police heavyhandedness…?

  6. NickM says:

    Well, according to Islamic scripture (Qu’ran or Hadith – I forget which) there is just one animal in Heaven. And that is a dog. Muhammed and his mates one night sleep in a cave and their dog guards them against potential enemies. Hence the privilege.

  7. dcardno says:

    …neither should dogs be allowed to mix in with other regulated areas of the household such as food preparation and cleanliness functions in the dwellings also of Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs, Scientologists, ….. etc., etc

    Surely a decision to be made by each householder and their guests, no?

    We have some delightful friends who let their two cats sleep on a kitchen island that is used for food preparation. I imagine that several thousand years of evolution has equipped my GI tract to handle the occasional bit of cat hair or dander, and even the odd case where dinner is so carnivore-appealing that the two kitties can’t help themselves, and take a bite. It serves to keep a squeamish couple whose company we can do without at arm’s length. That’s sort of a win-win, in my books.

  8. Talwin says:

    dcardno. I did say ‘…as far as I’m concerned…’

  9. CountingCats says:

    Um, don’t confuse ritual purity or cleanliness with sanitary cleanliness. There may be an overlap in actions (not allowing the dog to lick the steak for instance) but they are different concepts.

    If a dog licks you a bit of soap and water will do the trick if your concern is sanitation, but if Islamic purity is your thing, then if a dog licks you you must wash seven times, including once with earth, before you are clean enough to be allowed to pray, and pray you must.

    Soap and water clearly isn’t sufficient to remove dog cooties. But then you have to believe in dog cooties for that to make any sense at all.

  10. Lynne says:

    So presumably the Canadian police won’t call in dog units should such a gathering get out of hand and turn into a riot?

    Good luck with that…

  11. Peter Bryce says:

    I am a Muslim. Any contact with urine renders one “ritually” unclean, regardless of its source, including your own! (well, DUH!) As far as dogs are concerned, dog saliva is unclean, but you only need to wash once (“Wudu”) and the problem is solved. Not seven times. And washing with earth is only for when there’s no water available (like in the desert…). A lot of the attitudes of Arabic/South Asian people who also happen to be Muslims are cultural rather than the requirements of religion, and probably originate from fear of Rabies.

  12. Peter Bryce says:

    NickM, if you wanted to check it out, what you are refering to is from the Quran, Sura 18 “The Cave”. It doesnt involve Mohammed (PBUH) but an unspecified number of young men who take refuge in a cave to avoid religious persecution, and you are right, they have a dog who stands guard over them. Sadly, it doesnt say anything about the dog going to heaven. It wouldnt suprise me if there was some folklore somewhere that said it did though. I’m not a scholar but as far as I am aware, animals dont go to heaven because they arent subject to judgement, they just do what they do. They dont sin, they dont need to repent, they dont have an afterlife either in heaven or hell. Interestingly, the Prophet (PBUH) has stated that people who are cruel to animals will go to hell and there are many Hadith showing him being kind to animals. He particularly like cats.

  13. CountingCats says:

    He particularly like cats.

    Sensible man in that case.

  14. RAB says:

    A Heaven without dogs is my idea of Hell.

    There was a Twilight Zone episode in the grim and distant black and white past, as I recall, all about just that… Hillbilly farmer goes Racoon hunting with his dog Blue. He dies but doesn’t know he’s dead and goes looking for his dawg… Happy ending though, there are dogs in Heaven (Cats too I’m sure, they’ve gotta chase something haven’t they? ;-) )

  15. CountingCats says:

    I remember that episode. They met someone who told them that heaven was just over in that direction but the dog couldn’t go in; so the man declined heaven and they walked on instead. Turned out to have been the right choice.

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