Cameron and many Conservatives have been saying that there is no point in having a referendum on the EU treaty, because it has been written so that we cannot get out of it without the agreement of all the other nations. Which obviously is not about to happen.
So let’s try a hypothetical. Suppose some government – Gordon’s, perhaps – decides to pass law so they they get to stay in power forever. You can have elections if you like, but they’ll make no difference. Would you argue then that there is no point in holding an election? Would you simply shrug, accept the new system as a fait accompli, but propose a law to say that no future government can suspend the power of elections again?
Isn’t that, in a sense, exactly what has happened? Why do we continue to pay those 646 useless fat cats in London when we’re now ruled by the 736 in Brussels? Or is it Strasbourg? They evidently make sure to be a moving target.
Wavy Davy promises to be tough though. He says this:
I, for one, welcome our new Insect Overlords.I just want to conclude by saying something clearly to our European partners. My purpose in committing any government I lead to these measures is not to frustrate or to sabotage the operation of the European Union. […] Today, European countries need to work together to combat global climate change, to fight global poverty, to boost global economic growth. […] We will press to keep the doors of the European Union open to new member states, especially to entrench stability in the Western Balkans where so much European blood has flowed, and also to Turkey.
You don’t even get the opportunity to ‘vote for Christmas’. It is the only thing on the menu. Cast iron is evidently very brittle these days.
How the Great British Public (well it’s just MSM at fault I guess) do not question this situation absolutely mind boggles. The Lisbon Treaty has been accepted by Europe and therefore it is binding as far as the UK is concerned?
Hitler declared Britain part of Germany and so, sorry chaps, you are now German?
At the risk of sounding deeply pedantic, Cast iron is brittle. But somehow I guess that was part of the point PA was making.
John B,
The problem is… They have managed to portray the EU as an inevitable so anyone who objects is like T-Rex trying to stomp on those pesky little mammals 65m years ago. I don’t like the EU because I see a brighter future and not because I want to relax into a leather-bound armchair and retreat to the past.
John B,
Well, not quite. Labour promised a referendum on the subject as a manifesto pledge, but instead ratified it anyway, weaselling out by some twisted reasoning. And while the treaty was written to require ratification from everybody, I understand that there is no process for de-ratification, not without renegotiating the whole thing and getting everybody to accept the alternative.
Further, there are so-called “ratchet” clauses in which the Lisbon treaty can modify itself without having to negotiate new treaties. It’s a bit like our system of Statutory Instruments - Parliament signs the cheque with all sorts of blank spaces left in, and ministers and bureaucrats fill them in later without having to ask again.
I’m going by hearsay, here. I haven’t actually read the bloody thing. But I will probably have to at some point.
Nick,
Re: Cast Iron - yes, that was my point. I wonder if iDave thought of it?
I don’t like the EU for many reasons, but mostly because they are even more insulated from anybody being able to do anything about them than the British Parliament. Try getting the MEPs to publish their expenses. Or even to have accounts that haven’t been repeatedly rejected by the auditors.
Like Fuck we do. Your mission Dave, should you choose to accept it, is to fight for Britain’s wealth and liberty. Stuff all this global malarky. You can’t do anything about that and nor can ‘Europe’.
I know he’s just talking out of his arse like all politicians and all he’s really interested in is the economic welfare of him and his, but that he thinks that this kind of nonsense is going to get him elected in a recession when the biggest challenge to the Tories is UKIP and the BNP splitting the vote… Well it beggars belief.
iDave would not have got that point. I recall his election or whatever and a breathless BBC commentator mentioning it was a new Tory because his wife had a tattoo on her ankle (a swallow - rather unoriginal methinks). Thus was heralded in the New Jerusalem.
The only senior personage with a knowledge of metals in British politics is Margaret Beckett and she goes on caravan holidays and looks like Mumm-Ra the ever-living from Thundercats.
I won’t be voting Conservative at the next election. They have confirmed that there is no one to trust. That’s what frightens me.
I was staggered by the lack of outrage on Question Time; a particularly vapid panellist actually said, there’s no point in voting because “they” will ignore it.
I gave up and watched the ending of V-for-Vengeance helpfully linked on Englishman’s Castle for Nov 5th.
Your example is not a good analogy. The only restriction on Parliament’s power is that it cant’ bind its successors. So your theoretical legislation could be overturned. The Lisbon Treaty can only be varied with the agreement of all its signatories, so its ratification does change the situation. The Conservatives could try to renegotiate, but their chances are slim. Parliament could repeal the European Communities Act and leave the EU though. That might be something the majority of voters want, but not quite enough to do anything about it, so again it’s unlikely just now.
Oh, I know the hypothetical couldn’t be done with our current system separating the powers of Parliament from the Government, I was thinking of it as more a moral analogy than a legal one. Although being pedantic - if it were to happen, it wouldn’t involve binding its successors since there would be no successors. While the eternally-in-power government could overturn it, why would they want to?
How could the UK not leave?
“Dear EU,
We have targeted a couple-two-three Trident missiles on Brussels and Strasbourg. We’re leaving. If you try to stop us, then please make sure that you know how to say ‘F*** YOU WHAAAAALE AND DORPHINN!!!!’ in Flemish. Love and Kisses, England.”